What a Boy Needs
With Mark Hancock
| July 12, 2019
This is a two-part interview.
Don’t miss day one, where Mark discusses Raising Strong, Godly,
Courageous Men with the Family Life team.
Bob: I am an Eagle Scout. I grew up going to Scoutsā¦Girl scouting and boy scouting are both very different today than they were when I was growing up. Theyāre dealing with all of this, and thatās why Boy Scouts are now boys and girls.
Ann: āWould your Boy Scout experience have been different had girls been involved?ā
Bob: Of course, it wouldā
Dave: Yes.
“We know, intuitively, that boys and girls are different; and delivering the same program to boys and girls is not going to get the same results.”
Bob: ābecause getting together with boys and going camping, and going hiking, and doing, and learningāall of these thingsāyes; I would have acted different. I was taught to act different ifā
Dave: Right.
Bob: āthere are girls around. We wouldnāt have gone out and thrown the football around as much as we did, or we wouldnāt have gone out and wrestled like we wrestled when we were Boy Scouts. It would have been a different. You know who I should ask if I did right or wrong?āis the guy who heads Trail Life USA. [Laughter]
Dave: Hey, you know what? Heās sitting here.
Bob: Heās right here! Mark Hancock joins us, again, on FamilyLife Today. Heās kind of sad he did join us on FamilyLife Today, at this point, I think. Mark, welcome back.
Mark: Hey, I think itās okay to be here. [Laughter]
Bob: Yes; so you know the dilemma Iām talking about.
Mark: Yes; we hear about that a lot. It really isāBoy Scouts has an amazing legacy: presidents, and senators, and leaders, and civic leadersā
Bob: āradio hosts. [Laughter]
Mark: āastronauts, even radio hosts.
Ann: āfamous ones. [Laughter]
āThereās something special that happens when we acknowledge: āBoys are boys, and girls are girlsā.ā
Mark: But theyāve decided, in the last few years, that thatāwhatever that secret sauce was is going to work for boys and girls. A lot of people are struggling like you are: āIām not sureāI canāt quite identify whatās wrong with that except that I know that it just doesnāt sit right with me.ā Itās because I think we know, intuitively, that boys and girls are different; and delivering the same program to boys and girls is not going to get the same results.
Bob: Itās notāI didnāt want to deprive these girls of anything. Iād love for them to go have a great week of camping, and Iād love for them to experience all that I experienced. Youāre not trying to withhold anything; but youāre trying to say, āThereās something special that happens when we acknowledge: āBoys are boys, and girls are girlsā.ā
Dave: There is a unique thing that happens when boys can be boys/men can be menāwomen can be womenāthat youāre sort of tapping into. We are uniquely designed by God differentlyānot more importantājust differently; so it requires a different strategy.
Talk about your three-part strategy to help boys be boys and, then, become men.
Mark: Well, weāre encouraging leaders of boysāwhether itās in Trail Life or in other organizationsāto pay attention to the differences between boys and girls and create learning opportunities that are specifically tailored to them. We ask them to do firstāis recognize that boys and girls are different.
Thereāitās not a social construct; social construct does not change the structure of our eyes. Social construct does not account for the fact that girls/young girls can hear ten times better than young boys.
“You know, boys have a tendency to believe that they can do anything before they do itāthey just think, āOh, yes.ā They see it, one time, on YouTube; and theyāve got it nailed. If we donāt give them the opportunity to try things and fail, then they develop this narcissistic approach to the world “
Well, in a classroom setting, what do you think thatās going to look like? Itās going to look like boys arenāt paying attention; and they must be ADHD, or they must be rebellious, or whatever: āWeāll have to punish them or tell them to pay attentionā; but itās just a biological truth; itās not a social construct. They donāt learn to shut down their hearing; they donāt learn to be able to see things that are far away and moving much more easily than they see something up closeāthey are built that way.
Bob: Acknowledging that boys and girls are different, you say that: āWith that acknowledgment, here are some things that parents need to be doingā¦ā āā¦that teachers need to be doing,ā āā¦that leaders need to be doing as they raise boys. Use plenty of volume.ā
Mark: Yes.
Bob: You also emphasize the need for risk and competition. If youāve got 30 kids competing/30 boys competing in something, and one is going to win; what do we call the other 29?
Mark: Second place. [Laughter]
Ann: Losers.
Bob: Losers.
Ann: Yes!
Bob: So, you understand where moms and dads or teachers go, āWe donāt want to have 29 losers and one winner.ā
Ann: āI donāt want my child to feel bad about themselves,ā and āWeāre fearfulā
Bob: āāto think of themselves as a loser.ā
“One of the things we did, as parents, isāwe got them involved in different sportsānot because that was going to be their thingābut because of the risk, because of the adventure, because of the competition,āone of the best things about that is they lost. “
Mark: At the same time, we need that experience. We need to know that there are things that we are good at, and there are things that we are not as good as somebody else at. We donāt have a level playing field; that isnāt real life, at all. If boys can learn that there are things that they excel at; then, they can learn: āWell, thatās not my thing. Thatās okay.ā
You know, boys have a tendency to believe that they can do anything before they do itāthey just think, āOh, yes.ā They see it, one time, on YouTube; and theyāve got it nailed. If we donāt give them the opportunity to try things and fail, then they develop this narcissistic approach to the world: āOh, I can do thatā; but they donāt. They donāt step out and do it. They justāin their mind, theyāve already assumed that they can; so we encourage risk and competition.
We tell the leaders: āMix it up some. If youāre concerned about a boy losing all the time, mix it up. Let them do teams. Move it around so heās on a winning team every once in a while. Give him the experience of winning, and succeeding, and doing well; and give him the experience of losing and āLife doesnāt end.āā
Dave: I know that with our boys, as you watch them to see what they are good at and they are gifted at, you could see they werenāt all going to be athletesāpro-athletes/college athletesāyou name it. One of the things we did, as parents, isāwe got them involved in different sportsānot because that was going to be their thingābut because of the risk, because of the adventure, because of the competition, because of the interaction with other boys. It was really something you look back onāthey learnāone of the best things about that is they lost.
Mark: Thatās where character is built, in those kind of situations, where you find out: āOh, I thought I could do everything. I found out that Iāve got to humble myself a little bit. Maybe, there are some things that I canāt do that Iām going to have to work harder at,ā āā¦that Iām going to have to practice or study for/Iām going to have to work for. Iām not going to be handed it.ā Thatās a great place to learnālosing is a wonderful place to learn.
Dave: Now, when can competition be bad?
Mark: Well, you have to follow three rules for boys. You have to give them a secure sense of who is in charge. They have to know who is with them/who is on their team. They have to know what their mission is. If youāve got a person, who is clearly in chargeāin a Trail Life situation, thatās going to be a child safety/youth protection, background-checked adult, who is watching that roomāthey are setting the rules. Boys want rules; they are going to test rules.
“Losing is a wonderful place to learn.”
You see, when the substitute teacher walks in the room and says, āWell, Iām your substitute today,ā the girls say: āOkay; I get this. I understand youāre in charge.ā Well, boys want to know/they want to test that person a little bit because they have to know: āAre you really in charge? Iām going to push that boundary a little. Iām going to find out if you are really going toā¦ā What it really comes down to is: āAm I safe?ā
āIs somebody answering that āWho is in charge?ā question? I need to know because I know these other boys in my classroom. If you canāt handle this, Mr. Substitute Teacher, you donāt know what can happen in here.ā They are pushing that; they are trying to establish the boundaries, because they want to know if somebody is solidly in charge. So, youāre trusting that, in that senseādoing that kind of read that youāre talking aboutāthere is an adult there who has an adult perspective/frontal lobe fully-developed, who can say: āThatās dangerous,ā āThat isnāt.ā
Dave: Your third strategy has to do with physical movement. Talk about that.
Mark: Yes; weāve hit on some of that. Boys have to move in order to be engaged. They have to have breaks. In our culture, we are removing recess. We have completely removed recess in many cases; and we expect those boys to just sit in that classroom and sit still, be quiet, pay attention for the entire school day. Any psychiatrist/any physiologist will tell you: āHeās got to have motion. Weāve got to keep those boys moving.ā
Bob: Iām thinking about the parents, whose sons are coming home from school, throwing down their books, grabbing their PlayStation controlsāand for the next half-hour to, maybe, six hoursāthe kids are sitting there, glued to watching somebody on a screen run around, even though they are not running around. Youāre saying a mom or a dad needs to say: āHang on; time out. Turn off the set. Go out in the backyard; run around.ā
“Boys have to move in order to be engaged. They have to have breaks.”
Mark: Absolutely; they need to have that physical break. Now, they are trying to solve their issue there about risk and competitionāthey are entering that video-game world in order to have that opportunityābut youāve got to give them that physical break also.
Dave: Oh, I can remember our boys coming home from schoolāAnn remembers thisāand itās almost dinnertime or almost bedtime, and they are so wound up. Theyāre never going to settle down, just driving us crazy. I would go: āAlright; line up. Letās go. Weāre doing 100-yard sprints for the next 20 minutes.ā We would just run.
Ann: āin the snow, mind you, because inā
Dave: ājust to get it out of themā
Ann: Yes.
Dave: āso they would actually settle down and go to bed; it actually worked. Thatās the physical movement, and risk, and competition.
Ann: But itās really because, as moms, we think, āOh, I donāt want to do this,āāweāre tired. Dads think the same thing, especially after work. Weāre all exhausted; but our kids need us to engage with them. Sometimes, that looksāphysically, weāre engaging in pulling that out of them.
“Boys need to have that physical break. [With video games] they are trying to fill their need for risk and competitionāthey are entering that video-game world in order to have that opportunityābut youāve got to give them that physical break also. “
Mark: Let me address that real quick; because thereās the single mom out there, who doesnāt have the dad, who is coming home and taking them all outside. Thereās a single mom, who may not have the physical abilities, or desire, or time to do what it is that you were able to do; and thatās just such a tragedy.
They did a study on the Head Start Program. The number one thing that they found thatāthe predictor of success for Head Start was: āIs there a dad in the household?ā Itās because youāve got that dad, who walks in the doorāDave, like you did a hundred times, or a thousand times, or a million timesāand the boys are sitting there, quietly, because momās got them quiet. You come in, and you throw one to the floorā
Ann: Yes!
Mark: āand kick them, and throw them, or whatever; and then you go to the bedroom to go shower, or whatever, and get ready for dinner. They are all fired up now, but they learn to bring it back down again. They have that opportunity of getting fired up and bring it downāfire up and bring it down.
Well, boys, without that experienceāthey donāt know how to turn that knob back down again. They show up at school and think something exciting happens, and they just canāt get back into place.
I would encourage men, who are listening: āIf you donāt have a son at home, there is a boy somewhere that needs your influence in his life. Reach out to the boy.ā Again, youāre not his father; but you can be father-like, and you can provide that thing for him that he so desperately needsāa tussling of the hair, a little punch of the armājust some sort of physical connection. Thatās going to give that boy what he just isnāt getting at home, because his momāas wonderful as that single mom is and the struggles that those single moms haveāthere is just that piece that boys need that they can only get from their dads. They are desperate for that touch.
Dave: You know what is interesting?āis I was that boyāsingle mom.
“I would encourage men, who are listening: āIf you donāt have a son at home, there is a boy somewhere that needs your influence in his life. Reach out to the boy.ā Again, youāre not his father; but you can be father-like, and you can provide that thing for him that he so desperately needs.”
Mark: Yes.
Dave: I can rememberānow, I appreciate itāher grabbing the ball gloves. Iām eight, nine, tenāsaying, āLetās go out in the back and play catch.ā My mom who, now, I knowāitās like the last thing she wanted to do. I do remember I was twelve; she would get downāin catcher stance, catcherās mask onā
Bob: Wow.
Dave: āand I rememberātwelveāI was throwing pitches. She just walked up; she goes: āOkay; Iām done. I canāt handle your fastball anymore.ā [Laughter] But she also got me involved in Boy Scouts/Webelosā
Bob: Yes.
Dave: āBig Brother.
I had a big brother, whoāshe just knew there had to be other men in her life. She did bothāshe was the one that said: āMy son needs activity; he needs risk and competition. I can provide some of that, but I also need somebody to come alongside me.ā
Iād say to all the single moms: āYou can do it, and get help. There are people who can help you. Trail Life is a great ministry to come alongside you.ā
Bob: In fact, weāve information about Trail Life on our website at FamilyLifeToday.com. Tell everybody about the event youāve got coming up in July.
Mark: July 21-27 in Toccoa, Georgia, is our Summer Adventure and Family Convention with Dennis Rainey.
Bob: Yes! Dennis is going to be speaking at that. This is for families to come together. The boys can get involved in Trail Life activities. Mom and Dad can stay in the hotel if they want to stay in the hotel; or if Dad wants to go out and camp with the boys, he can do that; right?
Mark: Absolutely.
Bob: Youāve got a program going on for both during the week that theyāre in Georgia. Again, there is more information about the event on our website at FamilyLifeToday.com.
Mark, thanks for helping us just think clearly about how we can help our boys be boys.
Mark: Well, thank you. Itās been a pleasure.
Bob: Iām hoping that a lot of our listeners will go to FamilyLifeToday.com, not only to find out about the Rise Up event, but weāve got a copy of a booklet that youāve written called āLet Boys Be Boysā that is available for free download. Again, go to FamilyLifeToday.com; and you can download Markās booklet. Click on the link and find out more about Trail Life. Again, the website is FamilyLifeToday.com.
Talking today about investing in the lives of young men, David Robbins, the President of FamilyLifeĀ®, is here with us. You heard a great story this week about guys who invested over a period of time in younger men; right?
David: I was in small group, and one of the other dads in my small group is a high school principal at a local high school here. He was talking about these two dadsāwho, starting in sixth grade, weekly, would meet with this group of guys/with their sons and some of their friends. Theyāve done that over the last six years. Sure enough, these kids just graduated. He was just making this remark of how their character just shinesāin the way they treat people, and their love for Jesus, and authenticity and the way they push each other in accountability and in relationships.
He actually brought those dads into his office and was just taking all these notesāwas showing me these notes. Then, he said one of the dadās names. I go, āOh my goodness; is his son named Ben?ā He goes, āWell, yes; Benās his oldest son.ā I go: āBen is a guy, who is investing in a group of seventh graders, every other Wednesday night. My sonāmy oldest son is one of them.ā
It was just this amazing moment of realizing, not only are these seniors shaped as they get launched into college and beginning their adulting yearsāthe intentionality of investing in young men, not only shapes them in the current, but it also shapes how they end up investing their lives later.
Bob: Second Timothy 2:2 at work right here; right?
David: Thatās right.
Bob: āThat which you have heard from me you pass on to faithful men who will share it with others.ā
David: Thatās right.
Bob: Thank you, David.